Conversation between -K- and PS (December 2008 - January 2009)

The following conversation occurred between my friend PS and myself after was first put up in December 2008. Much of the discussion centred round the article I wrote entitled As above so below: Earth and Galactic humans. I am including the transcript here [end of page, below], perhaps it may be of interest to other readers.

The new material I am releasing onto the website this April 2009 goes into some more detail concerning especially the differences between type1 and type2 cultures. These tags are only a way to understand some delineations between some of the peoples and cultures of our planet. In truth type1 and type2 are not discrete positions that cultures hold but there is an entire continuum.

Now we shall proceed into the dialogue. Just to warn readers, although the dialogue is interesting, it was a chat between two Higher Self entities incarnated in the Game. The material may not pertain to you, or it may be difficult for you to understand. In that case, do move on to the other articles. Thanks.

(23 Dec 08)



Thanks so much for the robust reply to my questions. Very helpful. My mind works a certain way and I like to understand things in both detail and overall patterns. So I have attempted an Outline of our Milky Way Galaxy Game based on information from your recent information, especially the "As above, so below. . ." piece - and my overall understanding so far. It is attached FYI.

I know there is much, much more detail and nuance to the picture, but I do this for my own understanding so it's helpful to my learning process. If you see some obvious errors or corrections to this, let me know. I tried to make the outline from your observations, which I may have got correctly or not. This kind of material is intensely interesting to me. [see end of page for article Milky Way Galaxy Game Outline]

Cheers, PS

(24 Dec 08)


P, I've also updated the article 'As above so below', removing references to guardian-human and simply leaving it as human or 'indigenous', I think that makes more sense and reduces confusing terminology a bit more. Sometimes I write these from my head the way I think of it so it helps to get the clarification that comes from feedback


(24 Dec 08)


Good idea to simplify the terminology. I had a hard time understanding if you were referring to Guardians or Human cultures. I have come to see that T-1 cultures, as originally initiated by Guardians, are the original human forms indigenous to each planet - that they are close to each planetary spirit energetically and intuitively. They develop their own cultures based on the environment they reside in and which allows them to survive (as any higher life form on any planet). The reading of Malidoma's books, Mutant Message and Shaman's of the World books, makes this much easier to understand.

These cultures, if not interfered with by T-2 cultures could well develop in very unique ways, including what you have suggested as 'spiritual defences' - think of Malidoma's grandfather's ability to project arrows to enemies far distant, to devastating effect. Your description of ancient humans being semi-physical at times, as well as androgynous was helpful in that it conveys the emergence of the human form on a planet through the mediation of Guardians. The original guardian/humans were the way this planet (and others) create incarnational vehicles for Higher Self incarnations. Over time, the direct guardian influence in shaping the form and functions of that vehicle recede and the more fully 3rd density human form 'takes hold'. Cultures emerge so that experience in a 'human form' flowers full force on a planet. Then outside influences such as other cultures and technologies modify the original T-1 culture into other more complex forms that are much less indigenous to that planet - yet offer other incarnational experiences.

Is this a fair description of the process? The study of indigenous cultures this summer has helped.

Cheers, PS

(27 Dec 08)


Hi -K-

I was thinking about the differences between the cultural types you have outlined. There is a continuum of experience and mindset between these two very different experiential poles. The pure T-1 culture is totally connected to it's environment and communicates with it through intuitional guidance and knowledge. To survive, this culture must be alert to every nuance of it's environment, always on the move, and possess an intrinsic knowing that their needs will be fulfilled by the forces in which they participate. Hunter-gatherer culture, like the Real People of Australia.

The Dogon as depicted in Malidoma's books, have moved toward the T-2 cultural pole in that they are farmers and hunters. Farming requires a completely different mindset than hunting. It requires an experience of time that foresees a crop that can sustain life, but in the future. Planting and tending a field now for a future benefit is a different mindset. Harvesting crops also means processing and storing them for future use - not required in a pure T-1 culture. It also involves the distribution of food among the tribe; and accumulation of 'wealth' by some. These complexities are the beginning dynamics on the path to a T-2 culture.

Both of these cultures are, nevertheless, much closer in their intuitional relationship with the earth than the extreme other T-2 technological cultural pole. But what I found interesting was how different and similar the mindset is between these two indigenous cultures. Both fulfill certain 'guardian' functions in terms of energy exchanges between humans and the planetary-spirit. The Bushman of South Africa and the Real People of Australia are perhaps the two oldest cultures (maybe some in Amazonia too?) - I found it both interesting and profound that the Real People have decided voluntarily to cease to reproduce and go extinct. They know their function in the life system of this planet is closing and its time to move on (an endgame attribute, I suppose).

Cheers, PS

(27 Dec 08)


Wow P, I'm back on the net. Visiting London this weekend (to get among other things a badly needed supply of sage!). When you put in words like this, I understand even better what I was trying to say myself. That's absolutely it, the connection between each indigenous human group and the nature entities and planetary spirit of that planet. Ideally we should be having HS incarnations and nature path entities working on this level in mutually beneficial ways but I guess the galactic game has the concept of conflict as one of the potential catalysts for rapid development.

(27 Dec 08)


Yes, conflict is one of the built-in attributes of this Game. It also provides an excellent way to discover emotional balance and allowance, because to resolve any conflict (which always resides within one's self) you must 'release' the mindset that created it. I was watching a DVD last night called "Curse of the Golden Flower". It's an excellent, opulent movie that, as I watched received a 'hit' that it was a depiction of story from another world's culture, like Sirius or Orion - but somewhat different than theirs. The palace dramas and conflicts depicted are so endemic and circular to the sequential path - I got a wave of weariness just watching it (as in I'm so glad to be beyond that stage). Neat movie.


(30 Dec 08)


Hi again, -K-. I was away Saturday & Sunday on a driving trip down the Mendocino County coast - very beautiful country and coastline. This is a "new thread" because many of the "add-on" emails get a bit long and tedious.

I will comment on various ideas expressed in your recent emails:

1- You said - "The galaxy game was set up by some spiritual groups that we can call Game Creators. At their level they are Higher Self entities joined with Nature Spirit entities." I'm not sure this is correct wording. A "conscious entity" enters this Game for experience and learning. Let's assume there is already a structure and rules governing how this particular Game works and the end product - wisdom & experience for that individuated conscious entity. I recall the Author, in his "One" experience was joined by three other "friends" who entered this Game together - three of them chose the Higher Self path self and one chose the Nature Spirit path self - which turned out to be the Earth's planetary spirit. An amazing story! When they complete this Game they will be "Graduates" to use a common term to describe them. Thus, the term 'Game Creators' denotes Graduates of both / similar paths of experience gained in other games within the overall 3rd/4th density game board - which includes millions of galaxy games. Your sentence implies that entities which choose one path or the other become 'locked into' those experiences and don't progress beyond the identity associated with it.

2. You said, "The original group of Creators after having set up the reptilian and human groups, in addition gave them 'starting axioms'”. This suggests that Human and Reptilian were the original prototype forms for Higher Self path experiences. But what about the Guardian beings, which are NOT part of the two primary "Game path experiences"? Are they not aspects of the Game Creators, designed to facilitate creation / maintenance of this Game? Also, the names associated with these guardians are aspects of the Nature Spirit path (dolphin, avian, mantis, reptilian, etc.). It would seem that these are archetypical attributes of Guardians that are seeded into the creation of 3rd & 4th density reality. Thus a planet must first form, condense and solidify, then give rise to 'life forms' (by means of Guardians) which follow a path of complexity/consciousness - until a form emerges that is suitable for Higher Self path experiences. Some may be Human in form, some may be Reptilian in form, some may be Canine in form, etc. At this point the primary axioms of 'Service to Self' and 'Service to Others' may take hold in the evolution of Higher Self experiential paths (but not Nature Spirit paths). I am assuming that the Nature Spirit path emerged first in this Game (to prepare the way), and the Higher Self path later. Sound right?

3. You said, "Various creator groups could even mix their essences in creating various 'moulds'. It was the same with the Lyran humans (who don't only have dolphin influences but also avian, feline, bear and other influences came into the Lyran current as the groups spread out)." The term 'various creator groups' denotes what? Do you mean guardians? If the 'Milky Way Game Creator(s)' are Graduates of various path experiences in other galaxy games, they would have essences shaped by other game boards, which manifest in the design and intricacies of this specific game. See comment in #2 above also.

4. You said, "Eventually the Higher Self matures to a point where it no longer needs an Earth physical body." Do you mean prior to 'graduation' from this entire Game? As in astral existence before Graduating? I don't think so. My understand is that our HS decides before incarnation on this simultaneous planet, that it will 'Graduate' the entire Galaxy Game after endgame on this planet. So its not a matter of "maturing" to the point of not needing a 3rd density body, it's a decision of my HS that it has gained enough experiences this Game and has decided to "Graduate" beyond this game - like the decision to enter the game and the decision to jump to the simultaneous path. All are decision that we make, based on experience gained to that point.

5. You said, "The original Game Creators will remain responsible for this galaxy's game, however, newer guardian groups (Higher Selves as soul groups merged with Nature Spirit entities) emerge as the game continues." This suggests that "guardians" are actually Graduates of this or another Game and in 'training' to become Game Creators in their own right. Is this what you mean? Again, I think your semantics are confusing - "Higher Self" and "Nature Spirit" refer to the two different incarnational paths for individuated pre-game conscious entities (you and me) in this Galaxy Game. It is possible that as Graduates of this game, we will merge with other 'friends' that graduated from the Nature Spirit path, to form a new Galaxy Game - is this what you mean?

Well, enough for now. There is more, but I shall use another email for it.

Thanks for being here and sharing all that you have,


(03 Jan 09)



1) I think once again you are right in this instance. The wording is misleading although I have the idea and feel of it intuitively in mind. What I was trying to express was the union, the working relationship between different conscious entities which had taken different paths, progressed on those paths and had then reached a level where the fruits of their experiences are shared among a group of creative beings.

[PS] Yes, I see what you meant to convey - and agree.

2) As I understand it, the Dolphin and Reptilian physicals were used to set up the lightside and darkside poles of the game at that ancient time. The Guardian beings have existed in one form or another before the initial game setup. It is through the Guardian beings that the physical and energetic structure of the galaxy's game was set up. They were and are also responsible for the physical vehicles needed for HS and Nature Spirit incarnational paths. The Guardian beings reflect the Game Creators in the Game while the game players incarnate into one star system or another (as one or another race) are Higher Selves who come into this galaxy's game in order to benefit from the experiences of the incarnational game.

[PS] Yes, good clarification. . . Oh, by the way Monroe mentioned his original form was "dolphin" - fun stuff.

I would agree that on each world, the Nature Spirit Entities appear first to 'pave the way' for HS entities by helping create the physical vehicles needed for incarnation. This is one aspect of their purpose. Interestingly our physical bodies house our spirit, the original spark of 'divinity'. The physical body itself is 'devic' in nature in the sense that the material that makes up our physical bodies comes from the nature realm, the elements.

[PS] Yes, of course. The physical HS vehicles are still a product of and supported by the planetary spirit from whence they emerge, naturally or by means of genetic engineering by other entities.

I also agree with your summation at the end of point 2). That description will certainly fit the starting stages of the game, however as the game progresses other variables come into play, once Higher Selves begin to incarnate and the Galactic Game is set into play. The organic stage of growth will still exist, especially on secluded worlds. Elsewhere there may be interference with the organic process which may include genetic engineering to enslave or 'accelerate' the progression of the evolving life form.

3) What I meant by 'various creator groups' was referring to the Game Creators as non-physical (spiritual) beings. The underlying idea in that entire statement was to see the creation of the galaxy game happening in a top-down manner. Starting with the Game Creators at a high density level, creation 'condenses' from the high to the low. This is the involutionary idea. The accompanying evolutionary idea is to transcend the created to return to the world of spirit. The involutionary path is forwarded by the Game Creators while the evolutionary path is forwarded by the Game Participants. Put the two together (involution-evolution) and you get a sort of cycle, which is really like a circle, only that what draws the circle is not a simple curve but a spiral. In reality it's a much more complex process.

[PS] Very well said and a wonderful way to put the 'cycle' of beingness - involutionary / evolutionary. Neat!

4) The idea in my mind regarding the statement 'Eventually the Higher Self matures to a point where it no longer needs an Earth physical body' had to do with the simultaneous incarnational process. One can see Earth physical bodies really as game pieces, like chess. The physical body does not change much in one incarnation, however the Higher Self incarnating on Earth, because of the nature of our planet and the humans here, has the advantage of 'leaping' from one time-space reality to another (with the accompanying physical body of a particular TS reality used to 'anchor' the HS into that TS reality), gaining experience along the way. As you know, this process is quite non-linear, which is why it can be seen as happening all at the same time.

Another way to look at it is that essentially the astral essence holding the spark of awareness zig-zags through time and space, each time it emerges from a new time-space reality/vibration, it is coloured with a different personality corresponding to the just-had incarnational experience. Because there is no time restraint, all the incarnations are really happening at the same time, from the point of view of the HS. (Here the Author may say that the Final is slightly out of phase because of the way in which that incarnation is composed). Essentially we are carrying with us, even at this point, all of our incarnational memories, imprinted into our astral bodies. What keeps us from accessing these memories consciously is the way in which the interaction between the Higher Self connection, extending from the Higher Self, through the astral body and into the physical body creates awareness in the waking state.

[PS] Very well said again. I affirm your openness and ability to communicate the idea in a more concise and robust way.

5) This is confusing, I agree. The way I understand it, the Galaxy Game creators are themselves graduates of other games or forms of experience, but I take this more as a given or starting point. What I should have said instead, was that new Game Graduates (ie from Simultaneous Planetary experiences) have the option to start working on creative aspects, in which they will work with Spiritual Entities who have progressed on the Nature Spirit path.

[PS] I have been re-reading Monroe's last book, in which he encounters a very large being who assists him near the "aperture" and the "emitter" - I believe he may have encountered one of our Game Creators near the center of our galaxy. In fact Monroe mentions that galaxies are not born of black holes but by a sort of extrusion process through the "emitter". Interesting. The large being he encountered also mentioned that he had 'graduated' (but not this term) simultaneously with his entire race from a planet long ago. It may be referring to another and previous game experience? You may find other clues in Monroe's last book - I found it very helpful in many ways.

Wow, P. You tax my brain, that's good! These writing experiences will influence the way I write, thanks!


[PS] Thank you, -K-. I know who you are and why you are here - so I'm delighted to help in any way. You are following your path wonderfully.

Best, P


(03 Jan 09)

Hi -K-. Your recent reply to my questions prompted me to write down interesting excerpts from Monroe's last book that pertain to what we were discussing. Here is a some of it that I found particularly interesting and informative, FYI.

In case the formatting - italics - does not get through, I will use different colors to denote Monroe's thoughts from the responses he received.

Robert Monroe Excerpts, “Ultimate Journey”

Pg 204: “ . . . restless and bored, I learned all there was to learn on the planet and began to explore outward. I have a physical form on my home planet – like a fish – no, more like a dolphin . . . a dolphin”

Pg 211: “. . . must stay moving with the others . . . but they are all so much larger than I am . . . I’m just a speck . . . so small . . .

You are indeed, little one. Stay with me. I will help you.

. . . the one next to me, yes . . . so big I cannot see it all . . . a strong surge of energy coming down to me . . . good that does help . . . my consciousness is filling out more . . . remembering how it happened . . yes . . . was part of the Whole . . . one by one, parts were placed here and there, taken from the Whole and placed. . . where? . . . .

What gifts do you bring, little one? I perceive none.

Gifts? Gifts? I have only the need to return to the Whole where I belong, where there are others are like me . . . .

There is something different about you. You bring no gifts and you are alone. You are incomplete. [all parts of you Higher Self have not been completed, not ‘graduated’]

Incomplete? How can that be? I am the same as when I left the Whole . . . .

You do understand, but you have covered it over. We have reached under the covering. Let us help you remember how it began.

What? Not the dream but connected to it . . . before the dream began. It was good, but the Whole needed more . . . and the Whole is . . . yes, that it when it happened . . . the Whole distributing parts to grow . . . to re-produce . . . to add to the Whole . . . is it that? Then the gift would be more of me . . ? It has to do with the dream . . . something in it, or the entire dream . . . must open my memory of the point when I was not conscious here . . . careful . . . don’t want to splinter my consciousness again . . .

That cannot happen. It will be a blending of what you are now with awareness of what you call the dream. It is the total of that experience which is your gift. You will understand why you are incomplete, why you are small. Observe. [a statement that his incarnational experience is not yet over, complete. He has not yet ‘graduated’ as a Higher Self]

Monroe reviews a rote that the being gives him . . .

This is why you are small and incomplete. There is more.

Yes . . others who are waiting . . cluster of other [Higher Selves]. We go as a unit . . yes . . So in the dream I was an . . . an advance agent . . a scout.

When all have been assembled you will come with your gifts [completed game experiences] You will no longer be small [after graduation], but much as we are. All of the others will come with you [other HS’s graduating the game from earth experiences].

Was your process the same? Did one of you come here first?

With us it was different. You act as you do because your diversification is so wide. On our planet, our entire species became aware and made the shift as one [graduated as a group of HS’s in a different Game?].

Why . . . why are we stopping?

The Aperture is just ahead. It will open soon. Beside it you can perceive the Emitter for the energy beam that creates what you call the dream [this galaxy game?].

The dream . . the hologram would be a better term . . . The energy is very strong . . a flaming ball of energy . . There is a function I have to perform . . . The Emitter reminds me . . . I need to do this [graduate the Game].

We understand friend. Go.


[PS] Note: Monroe was not the Final of his HS, so he did not have access to key information that he might otherwise know. He did not know about the sequential & simultaneous paths within this Game, for instance - the memory of billions of sequential incarnations of his HS prior to the earth life experience – was blocked. Also note that entities within his HS that he was communicating with also had no such memories – they represented various incarnations he is having on earth and the astral, which are not yet complete, individually or as a whole. He was apparently given a peek at his initial insertion into this Game board [into KT-95 as he called it], but incomplete recognition or memory of experiences prior to this game.

I think the “Aperture” and “Emitter” are aspects of this game’s galactic core where continuous processes of creation of 3rd/4th density realities condense to and from, forming the physical/energetic galaxy we inhabit. It may be the singularity point of the evolution/involution process of this Game.

Also I note that groups of Higher Selves graduate this Game at the same time, as in the endgame period in this planet, and others preceding ours. Other games apparently have multiple entities ‘completing’ their galaxy game in a similar manner – as a group. This is probably more than a few “friends” that entered this Game together – but may intimate the eventual joining together/merging of graduates in forming other advanced experiential games/journeys/domains.

Cheers, P


(04 Jan 09)

Yes, it's wonderful to be able to have true dialogue with another who is on the same overall path. See below . . .

On Jan 4, 2009, at 9:25 AM, - K - wrote:

[-K-] P, this is a really crucial part of Monroe's work and also very relevant to our recent discussions. I can feel the energy behind the 'telling' just by reading it. He met a completed being that is no longer a galaxy game participant. Monroe's gifts would have been the products of his game experiences and possible insights. Yet although Monroe was not complete he carried the experiences of his past incarnations as well as his identity, the being was also relating to Monroe as Monroe really is, rather than as the single incarnation.

[PS] Yes, it is very interesting how I am now able to "de-code" the way Monroe expresses himself and how he deliberately obfuscates his writing to get past the censors at his publisher - for example he states they never encountered any 'aliens' on 3rd density, but plenty on 4th density - then later he states Higher Selves have the choice to incarnate in non-human physicals on other planets [aliens]. Obviously he is a bit off base with that assumption for simultaneous earth incarnations - but it shows how sneaky he is in intimating more to the game for those who understand it.

[-K-] I agree that the aperture points to the galactic core, the process of the emitter will happen on several density levels, I guess it can be assumed that the energies from the emitter come from beyond the aperture and into this reality. Also these larger-appearing beings who have collected all aspects of themselves (and hence their experiences) are in a position to share their gifts, how fascinating. Once we're finished we'll also appear big like those guys.

[PS] Yes. I assume that "beyond the aperture" implies a domain for sentient beings prior to deciding to 'enter' this game. It appears that the "KT-95" area may be the initial insertion point in this game (for the HS path). J [JK] told me she has visited this place in an OBE experience and it actually exists. Also, she was reading the exact same place in Monroe's 3rd book the night I was (I sent her a copy of the dialogue too) - very interesting synchronicities developing.

[-K-] Thanks! This is really an instance of synchronicity since in the last day I've been checking out some aspects of Monroe's second book Far Journeys, the very last section entitled Epilogue: Endgame. I've become interested in what Robert called his 'Different Overview' in which he structures his Knowns into a coherent format that reflects his experience.

Good idea. I'll was also thinking of re-reading his 2nd book also, this week.

[Dolphins at TMI]

At TMI, Dolphins play a role in perhaps inspiring spirituality on site. There are a number of dolphin carvings as well as dolphin paintings around the two program locations at TMI. There is also DEC, the Dolphin Energy Club, which I think the original intention was to use certain hemi-sync exercises for healing using Dolphin energy. I remember doing a DEC exercise during the Gateway program. You create your dolphin and then run the energy (purple) through the body, healing any illnesses or blockages. Quite interesting.

[PS] Thanks. I guess Monroe may have had more insight into the Dolphin consciousness/energy than he let on to participants. Did they ever discuss why the Dolphin was so important a symbol at TMI?


Cheers, P


Summary of points made in article As Above So Below: Earth and Galactic Humans

After writing the above article, PS sent me what can be seen as a summary of what I said in the article. What PS does is give the words structure. Enjoy!

Milky Way Galaxy Game Outline